College Conversations Season 1, Episode 11: Employers’ Confession: What They Really Want from Grads (Transcript)
Institute for GOD alum Jordan Miller (FNP) and Amanda McAllister (MA) working together at Hopewell Family Care.
Episode Synopsis
Join Gregg and Jeff as they sit down with Amanda Aaseby, manager of Hopewell Family Care, and Chris Cameron, manager of Genovations Media, to discuss a critical question: What are employers looking for in college graduates? This episode offers a deep dive into the expectations of today's job market and examines if recent graduates are truly prepared to meet these standards. It's an informative session for students, educators, and anyone navigating the transition from academic life to professional endeavors.
College Conversations Season 1, Episode 11: Employers Confession: What They Really Want from Grads (Episode Transcript)
Jeff Sherrod 0:04
Hey listeners, and welcome back to college conversations. My name is Jeff Sherrod and today we're looking at the world of work after graduation. When students graduate from college, sometimes there's the assumption that they're automatically ready for the workforce. Today, Gregg Garner and I sit down with Amanda Aaseby, who runs a health clinic, and Chris Cameron, who manages a video production company. In both instances, we talked to him about what they're looking for in employees and what students can even do during college to prepare themselves better for the workplace. Gregg himself owns multiple businesses, and he gives his invaluable insight into this topic as well. In this episode, we talked about employer expectations for new employees. We talked about workplace readiness, and the vital role of emotional preparedness for college graduates not just hard skills. We talked about the evolving landscape of mental health in the workplace, the importance of social and emotional intelligence, communication challenges, and the integration of faith in the professional sphere. I think your guys are gonna have a great time listening along. But before we get into it, quick reminder, your feedback fuels the energy of college conversations. So if you enjoy this episode, hit subscribe. Leave a review on your favorite podcast platform, it really makes a difference. Alright, settle in and enjoy.
This is college conversations. Hey, everyone, welcome to College Conversations. I'm your host, Professor Jeff Sherrod, I'm really happy to be here with you guys today. And this episode, we're kind of talking about what employers are looking for in college graduates. Obviously, this is a topic that's come up a lot over the years, not just because of some of the changes in education, but also our environment, our social climate, you know, all this has changed. I'm here with our co host, Professor Gregg Garner. And then we have some business managers here as well. I'd love to get a chance to introduce them. Let me start off with Amanda tell us Amanda, who you are, in what tell us a little about your business.
Amanda Aaseby
My name is Amanda Aaseby. And I manage the business called Hopewell Family Care. It's a primary care clinic that practices both modern medicine and does some integrative therapies as well. So and I manage about that we have five providers at our practice, and there are about 19 other employees that are full time and part time.
Jeff Sherrod 2:31
Awesome. How long have you been doing that?
Amanda Aaseby
Four years, four years.
Jeff Sherrod
Wonderful. Yeah. Chris, what do you got?
Chris Cameron
So my name is Chris Cameron, and I manage a video production team for a company called Genovations Media. I also am a partner and lead cinematographer for a company called Center Street Media that does more documentary films and things of that nature. We're on the innovation side, it's a little more in the realm of kind of small business and entrepreneurial help with like promotional materials and things like that. But in just like a real short form, I do all kinds of video production between those two companies. And then even with our church here, I get to work with AV, at the Church Community for God here on campus. So live streaming live music. Like I said, documentaries, short form things long form things, anything with the camera…
Jeff Sherrod 3:20
Nice, love that. I think one of the cool things that we have today, too is President Garner, you're an entrepreneur, you've done found it nonprofits, for profits who employ, I mean, dozens of people as an understatement, right? Hundreds and hundreds of people. Yeah,
Gregg Garner 3:35
I have. I think my last count was 82 managers,
Jeff Sherrod 3:40
82. Managers. Yeah. So dozens of manager, couple 1000 employees, a couple 1000 employees. So you obviously have tons of experience in this well, so I think that's a cool thing that we have today, too, is that for you know, all of you guys. You're doing several businesses and nonprofits, you guys are focused on a business, but you've been able to see over the years, some of the changes maybe that have happened with people that are graduating from colleges and starting in the workforce. You know, we Greg and I have we both work at the institute for global developments. And we've been training up students for a long time too. So we've even seen some of this changes that are happening when students are coming into the college. One of the things that stood out to me there was a study that was recently done by Cengage, which is an educational educational company, but they they surveyed 1600 recent graduates, and 50% of them reported feeling underprepared for their work once they graduated, and of those that had found employment of that 40% of those people said that they rarely or only occasionally use the skills that they actually got in college. So that was something that was, you know, shocking, right?
Gregg Garner 4:52
How many presenting? Yeah, so
Jeff Sherrod 4:53
of the people that found found jobs? Yeah. 40% of them reported that they occasionally or rarely used the skills that they Actually occasionally
Gregg Garner 5:00
are rare and rare. I used it 40%. So almost half of people said we didn't really use their college education,
Jeff Sherrod 5:06
Right. And those are the ones that found jobs. And then the other ones are just like we graduated, and we just feel unprepared. And so And there's one more I wanted to read, because I wanted to hear Professor and what you what you think about this, like, this is kind of a new thing. And this was done by the Mary Christie Institute, they asked 1000 young professionals, and they said that 40% of them reported feeling emotionally unprepared for the transition from college to work. And this has been this has been written about recently, because this is kind of a new thing since about 2014 2015. People noting, we're not emotionally ready to start working, even though we've kind of done the societal steps like I've gone to college I've, and I'm not there yet. So I don't know, maybe we just kind of start off kind of here brought when you're hearing fresco, and what are you hearing some of those statistics? Like, what's going through your head? Like, what are you? What are you thinking?
Gregg Garner 5:59
Yeah, I think those statistics seem to reflect my own experience. And it's interesting that you go back to 2014-15, which you know, about gives us a decade of consideration. And that definitely would have been the time in which, for these people in the United States, the reality of the great recession had kicked in, and people were trying to implement recovery. Yeah. And I think economists would say that we moved into a place of recovery around 17-18, which then, you know, just a year and a half later, we'd be hit with COVID-19, which was actually in 20. But it's, I think, I think there's some something telling there about how the mental health, which is connected to people's emotions were affected, particularly for those kids who, when the great recession hit, they probably would have been in junior high or high school, or maybe in high school, so that by the time 14-15 hits, they're graduating college, and they're ready to go into the world. And I just wonder what kind of conversations they would have had with their parents. Right.
On the other side of, I think I remember like, there was over a million Americans who lost their homes. Yeah, that time, right. And the layoffs and the companies that were closing down, I remember visiting one company in Knoxville, where they laid off 450 employees. And I just looked at all these empty cubicles, there was a liquidation sale like two days later, after they basically told everybody when they came in that morning, hey, you guys got five minutes to collect all your things and turn in your badges and or 30 minutes and get out of here. You're all being let go. And I mean, some cubicles, you could tell someone just thrashed the cubicle because they're so upset. There was still like family photos in the cubicles where people were working.
So it was a it was a hard time. I would imagine now that one of those parents coming home to their kids or in high school at that time, and then saying, you're gonna have to do this and yeah, right, like having like some kind of future resolve. And then the kid looking at the pain. The financial issues are well noted as being one of the top contributors to marital conflict. Right kid now is hearing parents arguing and all of this is contributing to some aspect of mental health, right? Yeah. Now they go to college and trying to figure things out. Now they're trying to get a job. And then they follow all of the guidelines, like you said, they get into the workplace. Now there's pressure on them to perform. There's a there's a sense of instability, because the economy is still recovering. Now you jumped 10 years later, and here we are recovering again. Yeah. And and the reasons for mental health instability are that much more increased. Because I remember was out there 1450, where you started hearing more commonly the concept of like a mental health day. "Take a mental health day.”
Jeff Sherrod 8:54
Oh yeah. Safe, or even on college campuses, safe spaces on college campuses. Yes. Like, the whole thing.
Gregg Garner 9:00
So we started like even designing the work world to accommodate what has become commonplace for people with their mental state. So anyways, as you're saying that, yeah, and I can see based on my own experience, and what I've been able to synthesize with respect to the observations of those experiences that those statistics would, would carry some weight. I also think that our educational systems, and you've heard me say this so much, they are long overdue. A refresh, right. And there are so many things that need to be reconsidered, readapted and altogether just reformatted to accommodate where we're at in the 21st century. But it's so slow. Yeah. So the education in the United States is such a big shift so hard to turn it right. And I think it's, it's really going to be the smaller institutions that have more agility attached to them. Who We'll be able to lead the way and the kind of change that needs to happen. Because even when I see big institutions grab onto a trend and decide they want to now adopt what they're seeing is, is coming up in the underground, it's really difficult for them to do so in such a way that maintains the authenticity of the smaller institutions, applying those types of considerations, like with our smaller institution of just little over 200 college students, we can supply a mentor for every single individual undergrad, where that's not going to be the case, we have active alumni that can go one to one, right with every.
Jeff Sherrod 10:35
And it's so central to like who we are, you know, this is not just an add on that we're doing to help with the mental health. Yes, it's like we can really lean into we're trying to, we're into people development.
Gregg Garner 10:47
Yeah. And as I hinted at, like, or intimated, post COVID. The sensitivity towards mental health, I think has been society wide. Increased, yeah, like people are more familiar with what it is that people are going with. And now you add, like the after effects of inflation. And the fact that while there's there's been high levels of unemployment is different than any other recession in that, in, in the past, like when we had high levels of unemployment, we had low levels of job opportunities, but now we have more job offerings than ever in the history of the United States, there are more jobs first going to get but people aren't taking them. Yeah.
And I know that you guys probably experienced this in your respective businesses. For me, after COVID, when people started coming back to the workforce, our big challenge was people didn't want to work anymore. And if they did want to work, they wanted to be paid way more than what the industry found to be fair market value. And so that's that just for any business that wanted to stay like one of our businesses is a staffing company, and our clientele had contracts to pay a certain amount of money for to be staffed. And it took so long for them, especially if they're bigger entities, like, you know, this particular company works with, with some really top universities and hotel chains, yeah, here in Nashville. And they have so much bureaucracy involved in in changing how they accommodate that the employees that we're hiring went from going like we need $16. So we need $24 an hour, we need $28 an hour, we had some are telling us I need $70 an hour to beat the government benefits I was getting during COVID. But we still have to supply staffing. Yeah. But the big businesses that we were working with, they couldn't all of a sudden change what they gave us they want to lock some contracts. So we had to get real creative as to how to even balance, how it is we would provide staffing, maintain our contractual obligations and then survive. Yeah, so I'm sure in your guys's field, you guys have experienced the same? I know, Chris, you probably you hire a lot of people who probably do like freelancing, right?
Chris Cameron
I work with lots of subcontractors. And it's like I can, you know, some subcontractors want the same rate that I can get for my entire team of who has to go work somewhere, you know, depending on what field they're in lighting or audio or whatever. So that that gets really interesting. I think it's something I thought of when you were talking that's really interesting with the size of a school. I
was thinking about go into a school like the institute because I went, I'm an alumna from the institute. And I think in a smaller school like that, something you also get is like, you're just so known by everyone, you're known by your professors, that one on one mentor kind of experience. You're known by the people around you so much that it mirrors the workplace environment a lot more in that way. (Yep.) Because people know how you're performing. Right? They know what's going on. So it I think it really prepared me better to enter into the workplace. I didn't go to a bigger school. So I can't compare the two experiences. But I would imagine I could have found a lot more anonymity. Oh, yeah, with a larger,
Jeff Sherrod 13:56
I mean, I went to the University of Tennessee for a year. And I just, you know, I walked around with a map because I'm directionally challenged. Which, you know, if you want to make friends walk around with a map on a college campus, but yeah, I mean, I could let go the whole day without talking to anyone doing anything I commuted at the time, but for sure, if I was like going to a job that was any more personal had been like, you know, there would have been some learning curve, right?
Chris Cameron
Just in like the interactivity with other people and having other people looking at your business and like know what's going on with you like that happens in the workplace, right so readily, but maybe in a larger college environment, you just don't, you're not forced to get that
Gregg Garner 14:32
Then there also has to be intentionality, right? Like with our school, we're very intentional to integrate education that's correlative to the development of social emotional health, right. And a lot of schools don't have any of that, with respect to their philosophy of education, or even how they train their professors and teachers. I know for me, I had up Personal slogan that I found to be adopted now by our professors, which goes along lines of me saying, I don't teach classes I teach students.
And that's another way of just saying, I'm paying attention to every kid that's in the class, because what I have to communicate, the way Jesus teaches us is going to whether it sticks or not as dependent on the kind of soil that they are. Yeah. And sometimes you for, for whatever reasons, you know, maybe they came from an environment where they were just really beat up just like that path. It's really hard for something to get into their heart. Or maybe they they have in their mind the whole time. I'm here because I want to make a lot of money. And I want to, I have a lot of cares of this life I like to implement and the thorns of that can choke out what we're trying to plant. Or maybe they just lacked depth, but they're very happy.
And so they can receive what's being taught and then all of a sudden, be you know, have some semblance of growth, yet a trial and tribulation. It's just, it's the Matthew 13 parable, right? Yeah. So for me, teaching students and not just classes has me really looking at the soil, and then being the good kind of farmer that's going to try and help to cultivate, because that's a part of the story that we don't really get, right, this farmer is kind of just haphazard, in terms of the distribution of seeds. And this is Jesus's way of explaining the diverse people that he's talking to, so that those wet years here are going to be the more cultivated ground. Yeah.
But I think as an institution, we take a parable like that we learned from it, and we realized, what role can we play in cultivating good soil, in our students, and I think an institution, a collegiate institution, that's not making consideration for the social and emotional development of their young people, is going to have a really hard time getting those seeds planted into their students so much so that students can say, Gosh, I don't even know what I learned that's applicable to my job, because I also know that people who run universities are smart people. And I guarantee you that a lot to say that was applicable to the job, right? Because I think the misconception would be people going, Gosh, colleges don't teach anything. False. Colleges are teaching a lot of good stuff. But what is being retained? Right, because I know with the K through 12, I was able to start like, one of the founding principles, there are considerations was that statistically, a K through 12 graduate, when they when they get done one year later? Like the grand majority, it's like a real high percentage, I don't remember was exactly what it was definitely a grand majority. Less than they retain less than 5% of all the information that they got from K through 12. And I'm not surprised by that. And I think it's the social emotional element. Yeah. That would increase that retention. Yeah. Because we as we need to be able to link things to purpose. Right. And, and I, and for us as believers calling, so I all those things do change.
Jeff Sherrod 17:59
Yeah. I'm curious, like, even as you guys are thinking about people that you've hired, what is it? What kind of social emotional intelligence things are you looking for? You know, for college graduates, like, there may be things people weren't necessarily thinking of when they're going to college.
Amanda Aaseby
I mean, to be completely honest, the first couple of years that I was working, I wasn't even looking at those kinds of strengths in an employee, and it but like as our even our conversation, and as I was thinking about, you know, coming to talk here today, it's funny where this conversation has gone, because it's exactly where I would have taken it. Interpersonal Communication is something that I think, is very much lacking in the workforce. And it's been probably one of my biggest challenges as a manager and to have a successful team, and to get us all on the same page to do something, you know, great. It was,
Gregg Garner 18:54
Like, what an interpersonal challenge would look like, just communication:
Amanda Aaseby
Conflict resolution, like, people are just not trained in our world. I was never trained in the different college experiences that I had to work out issues that you have with the people you're working with, you know, you just get over it. Push forward or avoid that person. Try to stay more avoidant.
Gregg Garner 19:20
Yeah, avoidance, I feel like is at an all time high. I have never liked quitting thing, right? Yeah. Quiet quitting or the quiet resignation. Yeah, yeah. Tell us more about that. Chris, because you're obviously informed by it. Unless you do you know, I was
Amanda Aaseby
just gonna literally just had an employee quit who? That wasn't her main complaint or anything, though. It was in like her exit. What was the main complaint? The her main, well, that wasn't her main her main complaint was personal, personal family things and, and some other stuff, but she definitely highlighted that interaction. But the part that I was trying to highlight was she didn't want us to tell anyone she was Leaving. And I was like, This is so bizarre, but it's so awkward. Because people can't I mean, and people care for her. So I'm just like, I'm, I felt for her on two different levels, because I'm like, people care about you, and they want to care for you as you depart from us. And, you know, you did have a place here, but she, for some reason could not get past that challenge where, you know, you don't see eye to eye on something or something. And so therefore, she built up different little mini walls, you know, to separate herself. And I just thought it was very interesting. And she just didn't want anyone to know she was It was literally a silent. She just Yeah, silently we
Gregg Garner 20:41
and the concept of quiet, quiet quitting or, or? Yeah, it is a little little, it's similar, but it's a little different. Sounds like you're familiar with it, Chris? Yeah, I
Chris Cameron
think the idea is like an employee, you know, they come to the job. And maybe before, you know, they were just like gung ho and all about it. But now they're like, well, um, that's not really my job. And that's not really my job. And I'm not gonna do that. And I'm not gonna do that. And then eventually, it's like, they just kind of stopped doing stuff until things come to a head or like, you know, just just essentially doing the bare minimum doing the bare minimum. And then like, even less than right like you just until like, somebody is going to correct you or until lucky, or whatever. Yeah.
Gregg Garner 21:20
And then they've also talked about this in terms of the quiet resignation. They're basically waiting for it, it reminds me of like, the junior high dating experience where you know, this is not working, but that, but you, you're hopeful that you're going to break out but the other person doesn't. So you're like waiting for them to break up with you. But they're not going to, they're just going to keep not talk to you not go places with you even go out with other people. And you're like, This is weird. I guess I have to break up with you. That's kind of the quiet resignation kind of thing. Like you have to implement something that says, Okay, we're done here. And also another thing that's correlative to quiet, quitting quiet resignations, they also start looking for something else. And they utilize their energy for these days, it's, it's, it's seems like we're emerging into another century of self, I know that the 20th century was often highlighted century itself, but I'm not sure we moved away from because people are, are definitely self interested. Like, it's become about my passion, my desire, my dreams, what I want. And while those things aren't bad in and of themselves, when they override your risk, your integrity and responsibility to a task or a job, or even interpersonal honesty, it's it's problematic. But you're right man, that people don't develop the tools naturally. To contend with these things. There's a very needed educational component that's missing in our education system at large.
Jeff Sherrod 22:50
Yeah, even as you're talking about quiet quitting, I think one of the narratives that comes out of that is that you, when you get hired, you're going to be taken advantage of, and you aren't going to be worked to the bone. So you need to set up personal boundaries, and you need to make sure that you're protected against that. And it kind of I think, even when people are thinking about the job, they're already kind of thinking about it as an adversarial relationship, before they're even there. And it does I think it God's color things because I know that for you guys, you don't have adversarial work environments, this is not something that you're not thinking when you're going into a job, like, as an employer, how can I squeeze every last bit of energy? And for the employee? How can I just be here for the bottom dollar? That is not the kind of companies that you guys are have? Right, and so, you know, like, but I do think that that is something that also is this narrative that's forming today,
Chris Cameron
I think that's probably a little cultural at large, right? I think as a culture, we kind of view work as negative. Whereas, you know, the Biblical education that I receive from the institute, you know, I mean, the Bible is pretty straightforward. Work is what people were made to do with a grand majority of the time, but as a culture, we like to say, work is like the thing I'm just trying to get done with so I can get to the thing I really wanted.
Gregg Garner 24:07
Yeah, so I can do what I'm passionate about, as if you can't be passionate about your work, right. And it seems that a lot of that takes place in the collegiate institution you're part of as part of our job should be to help align a person's sense of passion, purpose, or calling Yeah, depending on what we call it with what they get to do with the majority of their time for the rest of their life. And of course, that's going to be connected to their own giftedness. But a lot of institutions when they do look at giftedness they look at they don't look at giftedness in terms of aptitude. They look at it, in my opinion with these other tools that can be helpful, but so often just become, at least the way I've seen them use, like, ways of classifying people and then pre determining who they are. So Myers Briggs or Enneagram. Yeah, you know, see what you are. What are you You Are you an eight? Oh, I get it. That's why you're so aggressive. And what is your MBTI?
Oh, an ES TJ? Yeah, that's, I understand why you need those clear cut rules and need to boss me around. Like we go there rather than doing an exploration in terms of like, what is it that you have, that you can contribute to the healthy growth and productivity of the people around you, that you feel great about doing. And then teaching people that we all need each other because not everybody can do everything. In that case, you're gonna have to be a part of a team. And this like heroic Freelancer concept is just something that I know, especially after COVID broke out, when everybody started side hustling, because now they're getting government dollars today, and they can't go anywhere and work said you can't come into work. And they're like, I'll start a web site, I'll start another company, I'll do this other thing. And then people started making money because people have this new expendable income. It was just kind of like a moment in time, that worked really well for some people.
But in the long run, it is we're we're discovering as an economy, that this is problematic. And I think because so much of our young people who are entering into college, their news is social media, like they are subjected to the paid advertisements that they believe to be insights or a revelation. Yeah, as to how they can escape. What it is that these guys are saying is the enemy, which is quit your jobs. And work for me is basically what these people are saying, oh, like, I make $30 million, by the time you're 30. Yeah, that's, and the way you'll do that is quit your jobs and work for me, right. But they don't say work for me, they say work for yourself. But you're going to need me as a coach, you're going to need my curriculum, you're going to need my training thing to do that. And it's just become very well known that knowledge in that way is an asset, like people sell that kind of knowledge. But theologically we know that at the outset, the contrast is are you going to walk with God with the tree of life? Or are you gonna go out on your own and grab that fruit, which is defined by knowledge, and and so that you can accommodate your your desires. And that's why we do want people to recognize their purpose and their calling, and their sense of vocation. So that when they end the development of interpersonal skills, which includes clear articulation, so that when they are in a situation that they don't like or, or that's not accommodating to them, they can speak up and talk.
Amanda Aaseby
And because that comes from, like, a knowledge of knowing that like, God's prepared you, yeah, and he's given you everything you need. So if you just go to him, like, you'll be able to communicate, you know, with that employee, you'll be able to talk to your boss about whatever you're struggling with, you know, yeah, and it can become, it's more freeing. It's a freeing experience to like, live life through God's lens of like, how
Gregg Garner 28:03
it does seem like people have like sometimes two versions of God, there's this, there's the god, that's like you and him. And so it's like, I did talk to God. And God told me, and that's why quitting today, instead of the God that I believe the Bible reveals to us, which says, Wait a second, did you bring me something? You tried to get close to me remember the term for sacrifice Corbon just means to bring near. And in Jesus's teaching in Matthew five. He's like you're trying to bring to get close to me and bring the sacrifice, yet, but there's something you have to say to your brother or your sister, like, why don't you just leave that and go and talk to them? So the God of the Bible reveals he wants us to work things out with one another, right? But the God our culture, even our Christian culture seems to be the God that you can just talk to and not have to talk to anybody else. Yeah. And you won't tell anybody else like, yeah, he's he's a very good secret keeper. He's got confidentiality agreements with all his children. But it's a real thing. Yeah. And it's, this is why we're not just a school teaching people how to work at jobs or Bible school. Right, right. And we're teaching people more about who it is they can become in Christ. Because that needs to be before what it is, whatever it is they do. So it's about who you become not just what you do. You become like Christ. Now, whatever it is that you do, you're going to solve that you're going to light it up,
Chris Cameron
It’s going to be enhanced. Yeah, I think that's the is like, because when I was thinking about this talk, one of the things I just kept coming back to was the idea of humility, because I think what you're talking about is that people have to practice a form of, like, humility, yeah, to even be that kind of open with people around them, that kind of honest with the people around them, to receive that kind of input from the people around them. You gotta be honest about where you're at what you are capable of and what you are incapable to be, which can actually eautiful Is
Gregg Garner 30:00
it because it lends itself to the very necessary collaboration with the body of Christ? Yeah, to be part of a team? It Gosh Chris, that's such a good point. Because how can we say with Paul apostle I've been crucified with Christ is no longer I who live a Christ in me, right? How can we say that with him are reverberate that in our own lives today, if we're not willing to put ourselves out there, right, and have those difficult conversations. And sometimes people think they're putting themselves out there to have those difficult conversations, but all they're doing is quitting. Or all they're doing is saying, Here's my position, deal with it, I talked to God live with it. I'm gonna read something for you. This is First Timothy six, it's a really, it's a text that I rarely hear anyone talk about. I'm gonna I'm gonna give it a modern spin on the translation.
And those of you who are folks who can read the Greek, check it out, I do. I think I've done a pretty good job on this translation here. But it says: Let everybody who's in an employment contract regard their bosses worthy of honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled. And those who have believing bosses should not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brothers and sisters. Rather, they must work all the better, since those who benefit by the good service are believers. And beloved, you should teach and even urge these things. And if anyone teaches different than this does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the teaching this teaching that accords with godliness, as persons puffed up with conceit, they don't understand anything. They have an unhealthy craving for controversy, and for quarrels about words, which, of course, would produce envy and dissension, slander and evil suspicions, constant friction amongst people who are depraved in mind, and the private of the truth. Imagining that godliness is a means for gain, but godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and you can't take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these will be content. But for those who desire to be rich, they fall into temptation. It's a snare into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of you. Just through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith, pierced themselves with many pain, much pain.
Yeah, very powerful. I think we're all familiar with the end of it. Yeah, yeah. But to recognize it, it all stems off of people going, Wait a second, I'm an employee and I'm in employment contract. And I don't like this. And I need to get out of this. Because I, I have needs and like even the listing here, what they're going after, for they have a craving when in that craving creates controversy, creates quarrels, dissension, slander, evil suspicions. I've been in this long enough to have seen this played out for sure on so many levels, I'm sure you guys as well. But like, as if people could be taught these things. In if they have a biblical conviction to live by God's word, it would definitely change our mind. And this is very countercultural to where we are right. Yeah. You know, because the idea here is, you're you're gonna have to respect your boss and part of respect is communication. It's being able to talk. Yeah. And that's, that's so missing today. Yeah.
So I think a Biblical education is, is one that is going to help a person according to Romans 829, conformed to the image of God, son, right? Because this is what for those who me for New York was predestined to be conformed to the image of God sent so we're all being conformed into Christ. And He is the image of the invisible God and the the invisible. God has made himself known through his articulate ability to give us His Word, Jesus is the word incarnate. If I am going to image God, then it's going to come through my articulate stability, because he's invisible, right? Yeah. And I'm not going to be able to image Jesus by looking like him in my physicality, I'm going to have to demonstrate and communicate in ways where people can see and hear that in us, and this is, this is our calling you, all of us. So good Biblical education is going to develop in you the ability to tell the truth, to communicate, to resolve conflict. Because, gosh, how many how much of Jesus's teaching is committed to teaching us about the power of forgiveness?
Right? Yeah. Which tells us, you're gonna have offenses. Yeah, there's gonna be issues that happen, but with the culture manual that you're talking about, Chris, I mean, it's like, if any of those things emerge, you the best thing you do is walk away. And then you try to let everybody know, I've got no problems. Yeah, but then as soon as your way that you've got all the problems, which then according to this text creates the controversy and the quarrels and the envy and dissension and slander and the evil suspicions. So like, I even like when I work with my HR teams, I'm Like, guys, we have to do appropriate exit interviews. Yeah. And we have to let people know that these exit interviews go on record. And for me, I'm at the place where if an employee does an exit interview, they're supposed to tell the truth, they know this is on record. And if they want to go on, and slander and do something, you know, all of a sudden, they're on a Google review. I'm just like, just post post their exit interview, and hear them say it was the greatest place to work. I'm so happy for all the years I got to work here. I love everybody here and just say, you know, can you trust this person? This was their exit interview. Well, they have the lie, because Okay, all right. So this is the world we live in now where, where we're allowed to lie, because we got paid for a job. Like we're, that so much is so backwards and upside down right now. But the remedy is going to be God's word and the implementation of that truth. Yeah,
Amanda Aaseby
Absolutely. And especially when the exit interview happens, after you've already done it literally happens, you're done. You don't have to face these people anymore. So why would you lie?
Gregg Garner 35:57
Why would you need to lie? But that's the thing, right? I think, I think our culture, that's crazy that this all goes back to the development of social emotional, because our, in our culture, we have a bunch of adults running around like kids, when you were a kid. You were white lying all the time. Because you you didn't see the relevance of the consequence. Right, right. It seemed like yeah, this is not gonna, this isn't gonna really affect anybody. Did you do your homework? Yeah, I did it in your head. You're like, I haven't, but I'm gonna do it before school starts tomorrow. So you lie. And you say I haven't. Or it like, Hey, did you did you finish the load of laundry? Like I told you? You did. But you intend to? Yeah, it's on its way. Right. Right. We this is what kids do. Adults should not do this. No. Adults need to say talk on it. Not yet. But it's got this is what I supposed to do. And I'm so sorry. I'll go do it right now. Right.
Jeff Sherrod 36:55
And almost, it almost feels like it's it's culturally expected to do this in the workplace, like, you know, so your, your even pad your resume, you know, like, so you can get resumes that people like, Man, this looks awesome. And then you start working with people you didn't
Gregg Garner 37:08
employee employer advice to all you managers out there, never trust a resume. Never care if they have a degree in Jesus Jr. Don't trust a resume. You gotta test that. Yeah, you gotta test it. Yeah. But you
Jeff Sherrod 37:22
guys, because it's a culture, it starts with saying, and then even during that, you know, do you know how to do this? And people are like, Well, I'm gonna say yes, and I'm gonna try to figure it out. And you know, Chris, there's no humility. In any of that.
Gregg Garner 37:33
I actually had an employee who I hired at a higher dollar level than I had hired anybody before because the resume and their interview, and the way they talked and experience in the name drops, and, and I was like, Okay, this, this, and this person was older, and they have the years of experience. So I was like, alright, this will be great. Because you'll, you'll, you'll pay higher if you know, the return will be higher, right?
So it's like, Fine, let's make this happen. In their exit interview, a year later, they the they just told me, they said, You know, I really want to let you know that this has been a great learning experience for me, actually never had a boss who kept me accountable to what it was that I was supposed to do cost. And this was a really hard year for me. Because in the past, I would just say, Yeah, I can do it. And then I would go figure it out. And do my best and but like, actually asking me to tell you my plan, or, or where my sources are, and how I'm executing this. I'd never had that experience. And it created all the conflict in me, I found myself going quiet, feeling shame.
Even at one point, the person's like, I start blaming you for asking me too many questions and being controlling. And then I realized, because this person was a believer, and they were taking time to pray, and Lord, thank God revealed to them that their blame shifting, they need to take a look, they need to ask themselves some simple questions like, Are you being honest? And so the first set, I realized this whole year, I just wasn't being honest. And I've never even thought that I was a person who wasn't honest. And I and this person was in their 40s talking to me, they'd been in the workforce for 20 plus years. And then like, I just never thought I was disappointed. But she, she started talking about looking back and going. Yeah, I think I've been just dishonest but it was culturally acceptable. So I didn't feel it. I had to come down and say, Listen, it's a it's okay. Like, you now know, isn't that great? And now you can be different. Yeah. And I hope you can find another job where it's okay. When you don't know. Right? And it's all right, that you can grow. And then you just came back to well, I really I just wanted the higher pay rate. Yeah. And I feel like so often, that's where people get right.
Jeff Sherrod 39:46
And I think people will even ask the question, like, what is it? Is it okay, like, I'm just trying to get a job, like, Can I do a little inflation on the resume? I'm just trying to get in the door, you know, and I think that that's sometimes where people start with it as like, I want to hire Right, I want to get a job.
Gregg Garner 40:01
But yeah, but like this Timothy six passage communicates, like if you have a believing business with a believing boss, like the respect should be implemented, because they have an obligation as well, to make sure that you are content. That's part of their job. But it's hard because I've had experiences where employees weren't content, they didn't see anything.
“You can’t make them content if they don't say anything…”
Jeff Sherrod 40:26
And that's not respectful. Like it's not to be like, and they better read my mind. Yeah. Yeah. And otherwise
Gregg Garner 40:33
They maybe they have excuses like they should have known or, but you should know how to communicate, right? You should not communicate that there's some discontentment. What's wrong with saying you have discontentment, especially when we know that the remedy is supposed to lead to contentment? And it highlights in the text with repetition godliness? Yeah. So like, to me, it goes back to even those basic spiritual disciplines. Hey, before we get in all this, how's your prayer life? Yeah. You've been reading the Word? How's your family doing? What's going on with your health? Are you? Are you taking care of that temple that God's given you? You know, like, these types of conversations because of the godliness question, right? But where we tend to go is merely I think, because again, we want to dichotomize spiritual life and work life. Yeah. Which I can't find biblical evidence for that. Instead, I like we are to be these people of shalom, who are holistic. And, you know, work is part of our life. Yeah.
Chris Cameron
Something God gave us to do. God gave it.
Gregg Garner 41:38
Which, again, this is a theological thing, right? Because a lot of us think work was a result of the curse of sin. Right? Yeah. Because they've never really read Genesis three, they just heard a bad preacher.
Jeff Sherrod 41:47
And this is not a minority theological opinion. This is unfortunately, right.
Gregg Garner 41:51
It’s really Yeah. Instead, it's, it's, it's harmful to people's mentality, because they end up fighting their whole life, what God intended, isn't that better just to surrender to the fact that you're going to probably work from throughout your 20s 30s 40s 50s, and part of your 60s, and then find something you're passionate about, and a group of people that you love, and then build something together? Like, to me that that's, that's what Jesus was doing with his disciples. And that's something that we should be doing in our respective businesses in our respective work. And that that brings the contentment, absolutely. When when things don't fall into place, and they won't always fall into place. If you've got the, the covenant love people around you, or like, I'm staying in the room, we're gonna figure this out.
And man, I've had teams like that I've had teams where when we've had hard times, and Jeff, you've been a part of them, we're all of a sudden, like, we're, I've had to say, Guys, I'm not gonna take my paycheck this week to help balance things. And then some of you guys go, we'll also reduce our income at this time. So we can make this happen. And we can keep going. Like, that's powerful. Yeah. And the world doesn't know that. But this is part of the Kingdom of God. And it's not intended to stay like that forever. But you know, there are ups and downs, there are valleys and peaks. Yeah.
And you want to know that, whether you're on the peak or you're in the valley that you're with someone who loves God, and is not a lover of self, right, which is the contrasting spirit that animates the people that Paul's talking to Timothy about? Yeah, they are lovers of self. And they're characterized by that what he would call doctrine and demons. And I think for any of you guys listening right now, especially if you're looking for healthy post secondary education, you need to know we are completely biased towards Bible schools go to Bible school, you need to learn God's word. But a good Bible School is also going to teach you how the Word of God applies to the work that you're going to do in life. And the majority of your time is going to be spent at work. And because of that, there are some factors you have to consider in terms of who you become and how you contribute to that workplace, but also who it is, that is around you, and how it is that you integrate together. So you can really grow whatever it is that you're doing to the glory of God. Because as we know, Jesus would communicate and John 13 The world will know that you learn from me, by the love you have for one another. Yeah. And if we aren't able to exhibit that kind of love and a workplace, which I think all of us can agree, a very basic element of love is telling the truth, right, and communicating interpersonally and honestly with each other. We can't love each other like that. How are we fulfilling Jesus's expectations? And I think a lot of people don't because they never really learned from Jesus. Yeah, because they didn't take time to learn the Bible as adults, right? We do it we do it as kids and Sunday school. I get it. You guys went to Christian high school, but you're adults now. Yeah. And there's some things to learn and you learn those interpersonal girls that come with the word you get into the workplace changes everything.
Jeff Sherrod 45:03
Yeah. And so that was how I was gonna try to end this. Like, what for you guys, you've hired people who have not gone to Bible school, you've hired people that have went to the institute, I'm curious to know, like, you know, as you guys are even people listening, what some of the differences that you're seeing, because my backdrop to this question is that sometimes when I meet with students and their parents, the parents question is, you know, how does a Bible college actually give them the hard skills that they need? For the jobs that they're going into? You guys work in fields where hard skills are required?
Very much so.
Jeff Sherrod 45:34
yeah. What would you say to that?
Chris Cameron
I think, at least in my line of work, hard skills, you can learn them in school, you can also learn them, you can learn them in a lot of places, I think, is what I'm trying to say. What seems more important to me as an employer are soft skills, this interpersonal communication type stuff we've talked about, or humility, or, you know, these, these character traits that I think only really come in their best form, on the other side of a Biblical education are what is so much harder to, like, teach somebody in the workplace. Like, I want employees who like they derive that value from their study of God's Word. So when they come into the workplace, they exhibit those things already. And then when it comes to how to use that camera, or how to frame that shot, or how to do that thing, we can we can get there and they you gotta get there. That's super important. Yeah, it can mess that up over and over.
Gregg Garner 46:37
But a person who's gotten a Biblical education and who's really learned what it means to, to live by the Spirit, when they when you start correcting them, they don't feel bad, right?
Amanda Aaseby
They don't feel attacked. I was gonna say humility was one of the biggest differences that I've noted in, even because we have some graduates from the institute, the Institute, yeah. And then of course, others that have graduated from other institutions. And I would say the biggest difference is the fact that people who have come from the Institute have that humility to N ears to hear when I am trying to correct them in some, but I'm doing it in love. Whereas on the other side, I can see the fear and the Yeah,
Jeff Sherrod 47:21
Yeah, all those correction is something bad. Right. And yeah, it's rather than
Gregg Garner 47:26
the educated person. Yeah, that is that is actually part of the wisdom, right? Love isms gift. Yeah, and the text literally says, love it. Yeah,
Jeff Sherrod 47:36
changes everything. Yeah, cuz if you're going in bracing for him to be corrected, I'm gonna set up a hostile defensive position changes everything. And it's,
Amanda Aaseby
it's gonna be really hard for you guys to even do something great together, if you continue to have if you have people on your team that have that mentality. So it's Yeah, I would say that's like one of the biggest like game changers for me in having a team that's like, we were supporting one another. And with that, you have to have humility. And in order to have humility, I mean, really, God's word is what brings us there. Yeah, the Institute does a great job that well,
Jeff Sherrod 48:15
they get they get a lot of chances to exercise humility. As we go into the program, so yeah, it's a practice skill, right? And then they go back and they pray about it and talk to the Lord, talk to their friends. And yeah, it's you learn to love it.
Amanda Aaseby
As you get to a workplace culture, you know, you're supposed to have it together. Once you've graduated college, once you've gotten to the workplace, you're supposed to have it all together, rather than to be a continuous, lifelong learner. You know, God's still developing and still growing. And that's just… yeah
Gregg Garner 48:45
And it's so awesome. When people can go to work for employers, you understand that? Right. Right. Right. And I think that's another, like components of this consideration here. If you don't have an employer who understands that you are fluid, when you're getting there, that you're growing and learning and changing. And that because in that case, you just implement things like Romans 12, like manage with mercy. Right, like there's there's some mercifully manage highlights the fact that you may not be able to accomplish what it is you're expected to accomplish right now. But it's okay. We're going to figure it out together and we're going to grow and that there's an there's is an investment into your employees when you have the mind of Christ. Yeah.
Because because we're building people. But I think when people don't have that mind, and that's probably the dominant culture, right? It's not about investing in your people. It's about your people's investment into your business right through their work and now they want compensated for their investment, rather than recognizing that there's, there's the kingdom of God that's being built and that has been built in us like we are His workmanship. So that having employers and employees conscious of that biblical dynamic where God's building his kingdom, for Luke 17 Don't say it's gonna come from here there's ushered in, in any visible sight in the kingdom, God's among you. Once we get that, that doesn't just mean that at church on Sunday mornings, but in the workplace on Tuesday afternoon, and you look around you like how is God building that kingdom? Absolutely. And the more everyone's constant are aware, and conscious of that's, that's what God's building the the greater the sense of purpose and calling and fulfillment can be engaged. Yeah,
Jeff Sherrod 50:35
Absolutely. Yeah. Just to end with with that one of the initiatives that we have at the college is the Christian Jobs Initiative, that we're telling students that by the time that they graduate, there's, we have partnerships with dozens of companies that have the values that you guys have been talking about that we're going to invest in the people we're going to exercise humility, they're going to tell the truth, but you guys going to tell the truth to you're going to, and you're going to be ensure that they're taken care of and their needs are met this first Corinthians six, even expectation where respect is reciprocal, you know, and that's been a wonderful thing that I think that we're able to do as, as a college and Greg, you've been instrumental and starting starting that out, but I think it's one of the cooler things that we do is that gives people a vision and say, You're not just released into this hostile place, but there's a place even for you after graduation, where you can experience God's kingdom, even in a in a workplace, which can be unexpected. Absolutely. Hey, guys, I appreciate your so much time for your time and for the conversation. And yeah, thanks for listening in. Talk to you guys next time.
Thanks for listening to college conversations. If you have ideas for the podcast, including topics or guests, or even just questions you might have, we would love to hear them. Contact us using the link in the show notes. Thanks and God bless.
See Also:
Cengage Group. “New Cengage Report finds College Gradautes feel Underqualified to Enter the Workforce.”
Gregg Garner
The Institute for GOD
Hopewell Family Care
Genovations Media
For comments, questions, or topic ideas, email us at conversations@instituteforgod.org